You Don't Want To Watch This Episode...About Estate Mistakes

DANO WEIR: Daren, you've been a financial advisor for over a decade.

DANO WEIR: You have sat across the table from clients and talked about what they want to have happen after they die.

DANO WEIR: And in some cases, they have then died.

DANO WEIR: Does it always go how they think it's going to go?

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Almost never. So, One of the blessings of this job is you get to see the cycle of life with clients, right? I mean, literally you're there when the babies are born, not physically per se, but you're hearing about it from the client. You're there when the first happen. You're there when they retire. You're there when they pass. And you're that consistent thread through a lot of those firsts for your client.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: And it's really cool to be a part of that and really sad to be a part of that. It's hard, right? I think on average, every Christmas holiday season, I lose about four clients on average. And so going through that process is really hard, but one of the biggest ways we serve our clients is in that end-of-life care, right? And helping them transition into the next life or whatever there might be.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: And helping them leave this world in a way where they can leave the kind of impact they want to have on the world.

DANO WEIR: Financial confidence for your hip pocket.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Money is really just energy.

DANO WEIR: If you're checking out.

ANNOUNCER: It's all money.

DANO WEIR: If you haven't guessed today, we're talking about estate plans. We're talking about estate mistakes. Some of the realities of what happens with you, your money, your family when you die, when you move on, an inevitability. Daren, as I mentioned, I'm Dan O'Weir.

DANO WEIR: I'm the marketing director and host of the show, marketing director of Sonoma Wealth. You're in the Sonoma Wealth conference room. Daren Blonski, managing principal of Sonoma Wealth Advisors. And it was not what I expected when I got this job, which is that the A financial advisor is sort of, as you're saying, along for the ride, you know, if depending on what kind of advisor you're working with.

DANO WEIR: Right. But the way that we operate, we really are close with our clients. We care what's going on in their life because it does end up impacting the money. And you do end up seeing a lot of these firsts and lasts in someone's life.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Yeah, it is. It's hard, right? Because your clients kind of become. Part of your family in a way, right? And then you have to go through those death experiences.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: I was just having a sandwich over at the sandwich shop for lunch and client walks in and it was kind of a sad moment because I used to see this client and her now deceased husband would always in the afternoons get a drink, a little like a mocha or something at Baskin Robbins, which was right there.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: And I mentioned to her, I'm like, man, every time I come here, I just think about your husband. It's, you know, like, it has that real feeling and connection to it.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: So before I go into some of the estate mistakes I see, I want to be really clear up front. I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a CPA. I am a certified financial planner. And I have helped thousands of people retire and stay retired. That's my expertise. But I am not licensed to give you law advice or tax advice. Correct.

DANO WEIR: You work in conjunction with professionals in those areas. That's right. And so, again, you sort of hear about it. You sort of discuss what some of the directives are, but you're not the one actually drawing up the plan.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: That's right. And we always invite them to meet with qualified professionals that can give that advice. But certainly through that, what we kind of act on. And act as in our relationship with our clients is we act as that kind of consistency between all the relationships.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Some clients will have their lawyer be their main person or their CPA and some people have us be that main person, but it's generally those three professionals helping clients. So one of the biggest mistakes I see people make is they don't understand taxation upon death. And it's not their fault because Congress is always changing this.

DANO WEIR: Well, let's take a second. Let's set this up. So today's episode is for someone who has not thought about this at all. If you've not thought about what happens after, today is some key questions, some things to avoid, and some of your experiences in going through this as a financial advisor when it comes to an estate. So let's start with taxes because...

DANO WEIR: Everybody wants to jump in on taxes. Who likes taxes? No. Let's start there. How do taxes impact what happens after what happens next?

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Well, there's only two consistencies in life, and that's death and taxes.

DANO WEIR: Two, right.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: So it turns out that the government does want to tax you on death, and every state's a little bit different. So you have state law and you have federal law. So you have to think about... That. And so we're obviously not going to give you advice for your particular state, whoever, we know who's watching this, and we're not giving you advice federally because that'll change by the time you watch this.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: There's no such thing as evergreen death tax advice because that changes all the time. As we currently stand, there are certain limits that this year will reset at the end of the year where you'll be more exposed to potential estate of taxes should the current politicians not get along to extend those tax cuts. Those are the tax job acts in 2018. That got passed.

DANO WEIR: And those are set to expire.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: They're set to expire.

DANO WEIR: We're recording this in January 2025. Right. So whether the existing people, elected people, decide to continue those or not is on the table?

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: It's always on the table and it's always changing, right? And they're always coming up with new changes and there's political meandering in the tax code. There's something like 300 tax law changes every single year. So it's impossible to keep up with it.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: The current administration's saying they're going to do away with income taxes even which would be such a massive change it's an easy thing to change say to get votes but anyone actually knows what that would mean that'd be pretty difficult and would create a lot of change so i'm not sure how that would actually work out but it sounds cool for our soundbite world but taxes are a part of death unfortunately and but that could that could also be you There's, hey, you have so much money, now you have to give the government 40% of it.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: It could be something like that.

DANO WEIR: How are taxes a part of death? Can you give me a totally fictitious scenario where taxes would be a part of death?

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Well, if you had $25 million in your estate, anything over the current threshold, and I'll just say current threshold because that's going to change by the time people watch this. It could be $13 million. It could be $22 million. It could be $6 million. It used to be a million. Anything over that threshold, 40% of that money would go automatically to the feds.

DANO WEIR: Even if that was after-tax money?

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Yep.

DANO WEIR: So to transfer it from a father to his daughter?

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Correct. The daughter would need to pay 40% of that to the government if it was over certain thresholds.

DANO WEIR: And that's not the only tax too, right? Does the state want their cut too?

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: The state is going to want a cut of it too. There's some reciprocation laws that mitigate some of that. But yes, generally the states will take some type of cut depending on what state you're in. So if you're over threshold, you've saved your whole life, you've paid taxes your whole life, but you just happen to be over threshold.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: You're paying 40% of the government where we see this. And it's a big issue in Sonoma County, California, Northern California, because the property values have just skyrocketed over the last 20, 30 years. So let's say, for example, you've got 30 million in property wealth, right?

DANO WEIR: Oh man.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Right. So imagine this, you've got 30 million in property. You die of a heart attack. Your daughter, anything over that certain threshold, whatever it is at that time, will have to fire sell all those properties to pay that taxes, those death taxes, that 40%.

DANO WEIR: So in that scenario you just described, a Vintner father dies and had wanted to give this property, which is worth $30 million on the market.

DANO WEIR: All they want to do is just put his daughter's name on the title. And in order to do that, she has to come up with $12 million. Correct. Which she doesn't have, maybe, maybe not, because maybe all she has is this $30 million property. In which case, you have to sell it in order to make that $12 just to pay them off.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Yeah. Now, this is completely hypothetical. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're not being exact in this, and this is not tax advice, so let me be very clear because...

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: In order to make this content evergreen, we just have to talk in generalities. But depending on what the current thresholds are and depending on what state you live in and a bunch of other circumstances and why not you have a good estate plan in place, a huge portion of that estate is going to the federal government in a very short order after death. Yeah. And that's going to force the kids to sell.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: And let me do you one worse, okay? Because if that's not bad enough as it is, well, guess what? On dad's properties, he had $30 million. He had what we call Prop 13 interest rate or... Tax rates. So he was paying under market tax rates on that property. The family farm could only exist because they weren't paying market rate taxes on the actual property.

DANO WEIR: So at his death.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: At his death, that now steps up because of Prop 19 to market rate taxes on property taxes. So now guess what? That property at 30 million is getting split between three kids. And now they're all going to pay more taxes on that property. That family is losing that farm. A hundred percent. If they didn't do the proper estate planning, you're done folks.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: So that's death taxes, right? And it's a big issue. And if you don't plan correctly, and we're seeing this happen all through California where these multi-generation ranches, farms, whatever, they can't transition to the next generation because their property taxes step up to the current rates.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: And it- absolutely destroys the ability for that farm to be profitable and exist any further. It's really sad what's happening. Hopefully the politicians will get it together. Some very powerful interest groups push this Prop 19 through. And I think California has a big regret in passing that proposition. So that's an example of death taxes and estate planning.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: And for 99% of the population, that's probably not going to be an issue. It used to be a lot less, but they increased those thresholds. But it is out there. Now, let me do another one. Okay, so you have an IRA, Dan. Say, pretend you have this big IRA and say there's $2 million in the IRA. Pretend. Pretend.

DANO WEIR: Pretend.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Let's just say you got $2 million in your IRA. Pretend. Okay, so you saved your entire life and you built up a $2 million IRA. You pass. You leave it to your two boys. Your two boys then split that IRA into what's called an inherited IRA. That IRA now needs to be liquidated within 10 years.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: So think about that. If your kids are working and they're making, say, 200 grand a year on their whatever job, and they have to take 100 grand out of that IRA every single year, they're now making 300 grand. But that next 100 grand coming in is getting taxed at the highest marginal bracket they're in.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: So they're going to pay more for that bracket than they are for their other money. So... When you inherit an IRA, and this is a conversation I literally just had today with a client, client's in a certain tax bracket, this particular client's in the 32% tax bracket.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: And I asked her, your kids, what tax bracket are they in? And she's like, I don't know. Like we need to find out because we need to figure out if it makes more sense for you to convert that IRA into a Roth over your lifetime, or if it makes more sense for them just to inherit it and have to pull it all out in 10 years.

DANO WEIR: If they convert it to a Roth and then they inherit it, do they not pay taxes on it?

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: They don't pay taxes on it because she paid it in her life.

DANO WEIR: Because it's after tax.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: That's right.

DANO WEIR: Okay, so distinction here. IRA and Roth IRA. Individual retirement account and a Roth individual retirement account. Right. IRA is I made $100 this month and I took $10 out and I put it in my individual retirement account.

DANO WEIR: Traditional. I got a tax break. On my taxes at the end of the year for contributing to my account, right? Versus a Roth, which is I made $100 and I got taxed on all of it. And then after it was taxed, I put it in a Roth.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Okay.

DANO WEIR: So just to clarify, if you don't know. So you're saying it might make sense if she's got a traditional IRA to pay the taxes on it. Convert it to a Roth and then give it to them because the taxes might be less.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Yeah. And part of what my team and my tax team and my estate team do is what we do is we look at the whole estate and we say, well, you have these three years where your income is projected to be much lower than the rest of your life. So during those three years, we're going to convert X amount out of that IRA into a Roth.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: We're going to raise your income up, but we're going to pay less in taxes here. Than you would if you pulled money out later in RMDs, requirement of distributions that you have to do after age 73, or than what your kids would pay, right? So having a lifetime tax strategy is really, really important.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Most people just file taxes. They have no idea that there's such a thing as a lifetime tax strategy. But that's part of what we do is construct these elaborate models for people and say, you're going to pay this much here, here, here on this year, and this on this year. That's part of what the team does.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: So let me do another one, okay? Client earlier today talking with him, he has a lot of Apple, which is a very common thing to have a ton of Apple stock. I bought Apple stock when it was $2 a share and they put it in their brokerage account. This particular individual had over 3,000 shares of Apple. So fair amount.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: This person bought it at such a low price that their cost basis, the amount you bought it for versus how much it's worth, there was a lot of gain there. If that individual sold that Apple now, and this individual is almost 85 now, if that individual sold that stock now, they would own capital gains, long-term capital gains on that stock. If they wait till death, that stock will get something called a step up at death.

DANO WEIR: This is the reverse of the property tax thing, but to the benefit of the inheritee.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: That's right. So. For this client, the advice is going to be different. Say, look, look, you should not sell this Apple stock right now unless we can determine that your tax, capital gain tax rate is going to be less than what your children might get.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: But in reality, they're not going to pay any capital gains because they're going to get a step up at death. So sometimes it doesn't make sense to sell anything just to get the step up. And the same is true with property, right?

DANO WEIR: So let me put numbers to that just to make it really simple for someone who's trying to conceive what you're talking about. If said individual bought that Apple stock at $2 a share, and now that stock is at 160, it's not, but let's just say it is, then the gain per share is 158, right? And then multiply that by the number of shares they have, that's their gain.

DANO WEIR: And they will be taxed at the capital gains rate of That total at the capital gains rate. If that individual, instead of cashing that out, just gave the stock at their passing to their inheritee, to their inheritor, then instead of that $2 to $160, they would just inherit it at $160. So they would have no capital gain because that $2 basis that they started at disappears with the person's death.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: That's right. So you want to sometimes make sure in the planning process, like, look, we're not going to sell this stock. You're going to hold it till death. And that's the conversation we have with this individual earlier today. We're not selling the Apple. Here's why.

DANO WEIR: Unless you needed the money.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Unless you need the money. In this case, the person does not need the money. In this case, the client came to us and said, I've got this wealth. How do I get it to my next generation? Right. And like, well, here's, we got to bring your next gen in. I need to look at their tax returns. We need to cross-check it all. See where it's most advantageous to pay what, when, and where.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: The point of all this being that every bucket of money, call it your property, your investments in a brokerage account, your IRA, your Roth IRA, life insurance money, all has a different tax structure around it. So understanding that tax structure and then guiding that journey through to be most efficient, that's really important.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: And so one of the big mistakes people make is they say, oh, I got this. And they don't engage with professionals that really do this all day long. This is what I tell clients all the time. Like, look, because there's a big do-it-yourself movement right now, right? Oh, I just put my money at this company and I just manage it myself, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: What I always tell them is I say, look, I'm pretty handy, okay? I could build a house if I really wanted to build a house. I could figure it out. Especially with YouTube. You can learn anything. Chances are I'm going to make mistakes though. I'm going to cut some boards wrong. I'm going to measure some boards wrong. And I'm going to do things that will cost me money because I'll need to fix them.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Most people can do that that are intelligent, could do stuff like that. The reality is you don't want to do that with your retirement, though, because you can't fix those mistakes.

DANO WEIR: You can't build multiple houses. You get one house to build. That's it. One retirement house.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: So I'm not saying that some people shouldn't just be do-it-yourselfers, because I do believe there's a huge chunk of the population who can handle it on their own. They don't need people like us around. That's fine. But there's also a huge chunk of the population that could do it themselves, but understand the value of professional advice.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: And there's a chunk of the population that just can't. They're never going to give it the attention that it needs. And what I tell people all the time is like, look, the biggest mistake you make is not giving it the attention that it is due.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: That's your mistake. If you just think that managing money and managing estates and taxes and all that jazz is not something to learn and not giving it that attention, you're going to screw yourself up. Big time. So give it the appreciation, the attention it deserves. You're going to be more successful.

DANO WEIR: And let's just in this short conversation, the last 10 minutes, we've got in one case, a step up was a bad thing. Right. And in another case, a step up ended up being a good thing. In one case, liquidating before death to cash was a good thing. And in another case, liquidating to cash would have been a very bad thing.

DANO WEIR: And you don't necessarily know that if you're not a CFP. And that's where a professional advice, you know, can really come in handy. You tap into how many hundreds of hours that you've spent knowing things like that, you know, and you can really goof yourself up if you don't know.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Well, and it's not just learning at once. The challenge is the... The laws are constantly changing. And so if you're not looking at state law, federal law, all that constantly and trying to understand it all, you're going to get messed up. And that's not to over advertise for us or any other advisor.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: It's just like, it's a thing and you got to give it the respect it's due, right? And if you don't give it the respect it's due, it's going to be pretty difficult for you. And just to make this discussion even more complex, remember how I talked about that step up in the house and that's a good thing. So.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: On death, all your property gets a step up and basis too, along with the investments. Along with the step up, which is a good thing, comes the increased taxes, right? A good thing is even a bad thing. I'll gladly take my no step up if I can get my taxes back to what it was before. So it's complex. And the complexity is something that needs to be respected.

DANO WEIR: And there's a whole other angle to this now, because we've talked only really about numbers to this point. But. But there is a whole socio-emotional relational component to an estate and a family. And that ends up being its own ball of wax. And what maybe you think is all done. Maybe becomes undone or what is undone is not done. So how does the family dynamic end up playing into the estate plan?

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: I have often had parents in my office say, oh, my kids are great. They'll be fine when I die. I've got it all figured out.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: And I've seen those families just fight. And granted, now I have a bias because I generally see the problems in my office, the things that just work fine. They just happen, right? You don't hear about it.

DANO WEIR: Are you the principal? Right. You literally are the managing principal. Right.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: But it's just that people need help and clarity when there's people aren't getting along. So I always tell people, no matter how clear you think it is, it's not clear. So be very clear. Give the gift of clarity to your family because they won't do it as cleanly as you think they will.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Like, for example, I'll have people come to my offices and they'll be like, oh, all my kids are going to be mutual trustees on the trust. Like, that's a nightmare because they have to sign everything together. And they're like, oh, I'm going to make this one son the trustee.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Well, that poor son and the heck they're going to have to go through to clean up your estate is going to be significant. It's a thankless job. So there is no degree of clarity you can offer your kids. When planning and doing your estate property and talking to a lawyer that can help you do that is worth its weight in gold just for peace in the family.

DANO WEIR: I'm going to start calling your office, the principal's office.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Yeah.

DANO WEIR: I have a note on here that says you can't plan enough. What does that mean?

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Well, that's exactly what I just said. It's like you, even if you think it's done, it will get undone. And so you should always be revisiting, right? So once a year, what's my estate plan? Does it say what I want it to say?

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: We actually have this really neat tool now we use through a company called Trust And Will that allows us to create a visual of the entire estate so you can see where all the money goes. So just understanding how the money goes where to who is really important.

DANO WEIR: What is a private fiduciary?

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: So sometimes in families, you don't have somebody who can...

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Do all the processing of the state and understand how to make that happen. So a private fiduciary will do that for you. So we'll act in best interest of the trust. So you can hire that person. Lawyers are very pricey and that private fiduciary takes a legal obligation to serve whatever the trust says.

DANO WEIR: What are some of the things they'd need to do?

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Well, it could be anything from making sure all the money at death goes where it needs to go. Helping with burial. It could be, I even had one private fiduciary and, The individual that the private fiduciary was serving, the gentleman had passed away and he left some money.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: And the other individual in that relationship, let's say, struggled just to get along and function in day-to-day life. So literally the private fiduciary would buy a duals beer and give it to the person every week at their meeting.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: So, I mean, it could be anything. Like, I've seen fiduciaries buy beer. I've seen fiduciaries buy cars and bet. I mean, whatever. They're there to help that person get along financially after the fact.

DANO WEIR: Well, today we've talked about some estate mistakes because it's YouTube. So we got to focus on what we're going to fix for education. But that's not to say that you haven't seen it go well. And that's not to say that you haven't seen and known people, clients who have been well planned.

DANO WEIR: And as someone who is a part of the process and some in some cases just watching, you know, what does it mean to see it? To see it go well? What goes through your mind? And what do those end results look like for those families?

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Well, the most I was telling a client earlier today is like the last thing you want your kids to do when you pass. Is to make big financial decisions while they're grieving, right? We always tell clients, don't make any big decisions for a year after you lose a loved one.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Just wait a year because you're going to be clouding. Going through losing my dad and brother in a span of three weeks, I know that cloud very clearly and what that cloud feels like. And it's just like your judgment warps in some ways because you're just preoccupied.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: And so it's really important to set things up so that that family can. Grieve your loss and grieve the memories and not be super worried about making big decisions because all the big decisions have already been made more or less. There'll still be some, but it's pretty lined out.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: So it's, it's pretty, I think amazing when you take a CPA, which I'm not a state attorney, which I'm not in a CFP, which I am. Bring those three professionals together and say, here's the plan. Most people don't do that. But looking at it from those three lenses, you're more likely to get a seamless process together. And you're more likely to give the gift to your family of.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Being able just to be present with your passing, right? And like, that's a gift. And not have to freak out and worry about all the other people.

DANO WEIR: Okay, we got to do a real estate transaction now. I know we got to figure out a burial and we got to do a real estate transaction. And I got to locate all this.

DANO WEIR: It's such a confluence. It's just the absolute worst time. And I almost would wonder if I've seen it in my own life where...

DANO WEIR: If I get done with one, it somehow solves or ends the other, right? I sold the house, therefore I can get over them. And I don't know that that's the same. I don't know if that should be associated. You know, I don't know if you should be able to take time with one and not necessarily have it be rolled into a financial transaction per se if there's pressure for whatever reason.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: Well, the other thing, and it's really sad that this is the case, but the reality is, I mean, I was even trained in this business when I was a broker. I'm a recovering broker now.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: When I was trained as a broker in this business, they would always tell us like, find the money in movement. I mean, that was the phrase, find the money in movement. So death, divorce, and like find people going through movement and there'll be money opportunity for you.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: And that's what you're trained to do. And that's what's going on. So unfortunately, there's lots of professionals that masquerade. They're operating in your best interest out there that look for that money and movement moment to take advantage of you.

DAREN BLONSKI CFP®: And so don't set your family up to be taken advantage of because they will get taken advantage of. There's lawyers that take advantage of people. There's CPAs that take advantage of people. There's financial advisors that take advantage of people. And you can vet that process before death and give that gift through your passing.

DANO WEIR: Tough conversation. If it's something that you didn't want to talk about or watch about, you would be normal. Because who wants to sit there and plan that? And yet, just as Darren is saying, it can help your family. It is perhaps a gift. It is forethought. And if you're someone who plans, it's really what you wanted to do anyways. Who wants to leave a mess? So thank you so much for checking out our episode today.

DANO WEIR: We, you can learn more about our firm at Sonoma Wealth.com and, you can find more episodes of this show right where you are. So whether you're on our YouTube channel, whether you're on Apple podcasts or Spotify, we'd love a subscribe, a subscribe, could leave a review. If you feel like it at a comment, and check out more episodes of the show. Thank you so much for being here. This is it's all money.

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