F Is For Fiduciary

DANO WEIR: I got a list. Here's the order of my list that it's in.

DANO WEIR: Investment advisor, wealth manager, financial advisor, asset manager, certified financial planner, chartered financial analyst, chartered financial consultant. I'm not even halfway done. Portfolio manager. Financial coach, financial therapist, broker, stock broker, broker dealer, money manager, hedge fund manager, venture capitalist, private equity. He works in private equity. They always say that one.

DANO WEIR: Registered investment advisor and fiduciary. Did I miss any?

RACHEL SCHUYLER: A lot.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Or?

Welcome to It's All Money. Hosts are right here in front of you. We're taking out It's All Money.

DANO WEIR: Welcome inside the Sonoma Wealth Advisors conference room on the Sonoma Square in Sonoma. That's Sonoma three times. My name is Dan O'Weir. I'm your host and the Director of Marketing for Sonoma Wealth Advisors. Joined by two guests today, Chris Seip, CFP AIF, the Managing Principal of Sonoma Wealth Advisors. And a round of applause for the first time in the podcast, Rachel Schuyler, our director of growth.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Happy to be here, Dan.

DANO WEIR: We are talking about the F word today. Funeral. No, no, no. Not funeral. Friday.

DANO WEIR: Fun house.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Not that F word, right? People have kids in the car, they don't need to...

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Turn it off.

DANO WEIR: No, it's a joke. On YouTube, you have to do something to catch somebody's attention. But fiduciary, we're talking about a fiduciary. And specifically, we are talking about the different names and models in the industry of finance, because one of the goals of the show is demystifying this entire industry and letting our listeners, our viewers decide what works best for them.

DANO WEIR: And as you heard from that first list. There's a lot, and it's very confusing. Both of you have experience in a lot of these areas, and so that's why I wanted you on the show today. So we're talking about what is a fiduciary and all of the other different names that there are in the industry of finance. So Rachel, in 100 seconds, tell me your background in finance.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Let me see that list again. All right, so began my career in asset management. I was a wholesale. We'll add that to the list. Essentially, I sold financial products to financial advisors and it was not very fiduciary-esque. We'll put it that way. Commissions were what we were after. So it was really not in the client's best interest.

DANO WEIR: And we'll get a deeper explanation later in the show, but just right off the top, the word fiduciary means in the client's best interest.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Yes.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Right. Keep going. From there, I moved over to Zoe Financial, which is a fintech startup, which the whole mission was to protect consumers from the brokers of the world and connect them with a vetted network of solely fiduciaries, which we'll get to that in a bit.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: But yeah, it was very altruistic and we helped people, genuinely helped people get good advice. And now I'm fortunate. Enough to work for Sonoma Wealth Advisors, a registered investment advisor, along with many certified financial planners also on the list. And we are a fiduciary, so we are legally obligated to act in our client's best interest.

DANO WEIR: I think we have to say we have fiduciaries on staff because the firm itself actually cannot be a fiduciary. And I'm not even a lawyer, Chris.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Wow.

DANO WEIR: This is the on-the-job training. You should probably.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Become one, you know.

DANO WEIR: Because you are marketing.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: And I think marketing requires a law degree these days.

DANO WEIR: It sure does. Rachel, thanks for sharing that. Chris, yourself, obviously, you're the managing principal now of an RIA, a registered investment advisor. But prior to that, you were?

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: I started out my career in the insurance world, specifically commercial insurance, went from there to a large bank that also had a broker dealer. Attached to this bank.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: So like Rachel, I've kind of seen the different types of financial advice that's out there and what's available in the market and kind of seen it from the inside.

DANO WEIR: So let's start with this. I want to define the I want to talk about the word broker because we'll be saying that a lot today. So I did Chris's series big on history. So I had to do some history for Chris. The word broker derives from the old French V. R. O. C. E. U. R. Mrs. Gould at Costa Grande High School is going to kill me because I won't say this right.

DANO WEIR: I think it's brochure, which means small trader. It's uncertain origin. But possibly from old French, also meaning wine retailer. And that comes from the Online Etymology Dictionary. Also, Oxford English Dictionary says that the word broker, stockbroker, dates back to 1706.

DANO WEIR: That's the earliest evidence they have. Right. More history, Chris. So this is important. So from my reading, the model kind of went like this. You have Joe Public. Joe Public wants to buy a stock. They need someone in the middle who's going to buy that for them. And that person is paid on that transaction. That's their commission.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: That's right.

DANO WEIR: And that is the model as old as time.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Yeah. And there's various versions of that, right? There's like what they call a broker dealer where they're going to get a whole inventory of stocks or bonds and they might sell to big institutional investors.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: And their job is to make a market, which means just like it sounds. You know, be the buyer or the seller when people need to buy or sell. And then you've got other models where say a company was wanting to sell stock in, in its company.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: They might go direct to the public and say, Hey, I've, I've got shares in this company. Here's the share. Here's what this company is about. You can buy shares for this price. And people would buy from them.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Can I add to that? Of course.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: So, big part of my job at Zoe was educating consumers on all of this and like broker to me if you it all goes back to incentives so they're incentivized to sell products that puts money in their pockets so that's obviously not in anyone's best interest but their own in the firm that they work for it's very transactional so I would summarize it so that transactional business model was kind of the standard.

DANO WEIR: And this is coming from a great write-up I found on a website called analyzingalpha.com, also, which had sources in The New York Times. 1975, the SEC deregulates a 183-year-old law that had 2% fixed commission rates, which basically they deemed to be keeping people out of investing because it was too expensive to buy one stock every single time from this one person.

DANO WEIR: Okay, same time you've got Charles Schwab and T. D. Waterhouse coming to prominence. Public participation in the market starts reaching record levels.

DANO WEIR: Commissions that were averaging 80 cents per share in the early 1970s plunge to an estimated 4 cents. Right? And so I identified this as the moment where you suddenly go, okay, well. The money's been goofed with the way that we've been doing it for a long time. So now, well, I'm going to set it up like this. Well, I'm going to set it up like this.

DANO WEIR: Well, I'm going to set it up like this. That's what from my reading, I kind of identified. And so I want to talk about the different ways in which three different types of financial advisors are paid. So let's go back to the broker model. So I'm a broker or a broker dealer. Chris, how is a broker dealer paid once again?

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: So Broker dealers, those are the ones who are typically making the market. They're making the trades. So they make money in several ways, but the chief among those is the spread between the bid and the ask, which is if I buy it from you at, say, $100 and then I sell it to Rachel for $100.02, I make two cents on that transaction. That is the primary way a broker dealer would make money.

DANO WEIR: Okay, so the broker dealer is incentivized. In the scenario you're giving where Rachel is our client, you're incentivized to sell that client a product.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Transactions are good for broker-dealers. Correct. Right? Transactions is where they're making the money. Now, there's also other arrangements with certain fund families where the fund family will pay what they call...

DANO WEIR: Fund family is a what?

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Revenue share. Okay, so...

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Rachel Fund Shop Asset Manager.

DANO WEIR: Okay.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Right.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Like Invesco.

DANO WEIR: Okay.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: There's all different mutual fund families, right? And some of them.

DANO WEIR: So the broker isn't even the person with the fund. So you've got the mutual fund. Sometimes they do.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Sometimes they have their own.

DANO WEIR: But in this scenario that you're talking about, you've got a mutual fund, which is a company which says, we think we can pick the best stocks. Super, super general. We think we can pick the best stocks, throw them all into a big salad, and then sell that salad to the broker dealer who then sells it to the. Client.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Close.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: They'll say, here's our menu of mutual funds that we work with, right? Or investments that we work with. And so the advisor or the client can pick from that menu. When they pick from that menu, a certain portion of that revenue goes back to the broker dealer. So they're kind of in a way paying to be on the menu.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Can I give you one example? So we sold a lot of bond funds at another asset manager. It was A shares, which is an upfront sales charge. So I, being Series 7 licensed, was allowed to provide advice to advisors. It was 5.25% upfront, and then there was a 12B1 fee baked into that. So that's like another, what, 1-2%.

DANO WEIR: So yeah it's we were very much incentivized to gather assets in the products if that makes sense and now the broker would say that these fees are very important because they've got a business to run right you gotta keep the lights on we have property that we have to pay for we have insurance that we have to pay for gotta pay for our portfolio managers Right.

DANO WEIR: But then there also has to be upside in it for them. They're not running a nonprofit. Right. So then how much are those fees really in relative to whether it is or isn't a good value or over an overcharge? And you as a client might not necessarily know that.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Right. The C-Suite was very well paid.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: I think that's an important thing to say is that if you are a client shopping for a person to work with, whenever you're looking for financial advice, you should 100% be. Crystal clear on how that person's getting paid and who they're getting paid by. It's not out of line to ask that question. No way. You should know.

DANO WEIR: And back to your, you brought up the menu of mutual funds that you might have at a broker dealer. So if you're a client working with a broker dealer and they show you the mutual funds, you are in that case picking, but it also should be noted that those are not the only mutual funds in the world. And in fact, you're looking at one corner of the universe.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: One family.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: A ton more right so you're looking at limiting not limited options at one given fun family yes so ideally you want to diversify across multiple families although you know then you don't hit the break points yeah cut break points is when you have a certain amount of money with one fun family then the then the fees come down right right okay okay so i'm following thank you I think.

DANO WEIR: So the benefit is I'm not licensed. I'm just the marketing director. So I'm closer to you watching this show than Chris is. Chris really knows this stuff and I'm learning this stuff, just like you are, Rachel as well. So, and I want to.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: I think the point is so far, we've got two areas of where this broker is being paid from, transaction and fund families. Correct. So far. So you can already see that there's not like one clear place that this entity that is giving you, you know, their recommendations or whatever, where they're getting paid from. There's several different areas. Yep.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: So here's a little fun story for you that I think will help illustrate this. So we used to celebrate and take out to golf, you know, golf scrambles, steak dinners, the advisors that would.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Send the most like that gave us the most commission which is that's clients money right so the fact that we were celebrating that and rewarding them for that is is in retrospect very very twisted if you think about it i didn't know any better at the time i was 22 so and.

DANO WEIR: I think and i want to be really careful today because on this show we are always careful to present you know up and downside right And so, again, the broker would say, but hey, you're paying fees on the transactions, but you're not paying that ongoing fee. You don't have a subscription fee to us. Right.

DANO WEIR: So that's so there are people who, you know, when we're going to talk about RIAs now, you're paying that every year. Right. And so to someone who that's a real pain point and that just drives you nuts, you know, maybe maybe paying per transaction really is right for you. But. It's up to you. And let's talk about the next model here, which is the registered investment advisor.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Yeah. So the good thing about RIAs, that's the acronym for registered investment advisor. There's flexibility with fees, I would say. So. When I worked at Zoe, I heard every fee structure that existed. And it ranges from hourly to a subscription or like retainer.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: So it's monthly or quarterly installments, essentially. Or they charge based on assets under management, which I think it's a lot different because, you know, when the firm does better, the clients do better. So, again, going back to incentives, they're obviously we're all incentivized to do well for our clients.

DANO WEIR: All right. So you said firm does better when the clients do better and assets under management, AUM. So with an RIA, the structure is, let's just say it's not true, but let's say I had a million dollars and I'm going to invest it with Rachel, the RIA. How do you get paid?

RACHEL SCHUYLER: One of the, so the three that I just mentioned, that's how I would be paid.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Most common is the... The assets under management or assets under care model, which is typically a percentage based on whatever that advisor's structure is. The most common is 1%. So let's say 1% is the fee on a million dollars. So that if that fund grows, then the dollar amount will change with those funds up. Same thing, it will go down.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: But in that situation, the client is hiring the investment advisor as their guide, as their fiduciary. And that client's management fee is the only source of income to that registered investment advisor. So you, Dan, would be hiring me as your agent, your fiduciary. And I'm working for you. You're paying me. And that's it.

DANO WEIR: And that's what I was looking for, Rachel. I'm sorry, I should have specified numbers. I was trying to play the numbers game out. So the 1% scenario, right? So if that investment grows from $1 million to let's say $1.1 million, well, now I'm paying you 1% on $1.1 million, but I've also made that, I've made $100,000.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Unless you hit a break point. So let's say it grows to $2 million, that 1% may come down to 85 basis points, right? So that's what I meant by... The client does better. The firm's doing better. So yeah, it's very much aligned.

DANO WEIR: It's negotiable.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Yeah, I guess everything in life is negotiable.

DANO WEIR: Right, right. Yeah. And you also, in addition to upfront fees, you also, as an investor, have access to a wider world of investments?

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Yes.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Can. Not always.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Right but usually and it's and a lot of times so the same mutual funds that we were talking about earlier they have different share classes so you can have the exact same fund with the exact same underlying investments so fund a and it owns these 10 stocks let's say that will have different flavors depending on who you buy it from and when you're with an institutional investor like us which is a fiduciary we buy the share class that is typically the cheapest because there's no portion of that that comes back to RIA.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: So going back to that revenue sharing before where some of that money had to go to the broker that sold it, that doesn't exist with the RIA structure.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Yeah. So I mentioned that A shares 5.25% upfront. The institutional share classes that we use, there's no upfront.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Fee so yeah it might have a share c shares f shares there's all different and they all have their own corresponding expense ratio that's the that's the expense of the actual fund to run it and so but again it's the exact same fund it's just where are you buying it from and to your point earlier sometimes let's say you're gonna buy that one share And then you never want to talk to an advisor ever again.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: You don't want any financial planning. You want no advice. You're just going to own this share of this mutual fund for 100 years. Maybe that A share that you pay 5.25% up front is the best thing for you. So there's definitely a spectrum. It's gray, and there's not always a situation where this is always the best way.

DANO WEIR: But we also… You know, we are a fiduciary. We are a registered investment advisor, so we clearly are fans of it.

DANO WEIR: And you are getting, you mentioned the planning piece. So can you explain the difference between asset management and financial planning, Rachel?

RACHEL SCHUYLER: A hundred percent. So asset management. Does not involve, at least in my experience, does not involve financial planning. So.

DANO WEIR: I know you blew a lot of people's mind there because I think a lot of people just kind of conflate the two. So what's the difference?

RACHEL SCHUYLER: I'm pretty sure that, that the average consumer is extremely confused because now everyone says they do financial planning, but financial planning means different things to different people and how they market it. So. Okay. Asset management. Is all about investments.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: So when I interviewed a lot of advisors at Zoe Financial, I wouldn't let them in the network if they were leading with investment performance. You need to be leading with financial planning. Otherwise, the investments don't make sense. How are you going to make sense of investments without an actual plan? So that's a very big difference between this world and that world.

DANO WEIR: And financial planning is?

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Is valuable.

DANO WEIR: Is this i'm looking to define i'm looking to define the difference for someone asset management is is hey hey you gave me five hundred thousand dollars and i bought pepsi and three other stocks so asset management most of the time it's a portfolio manager who's managing said mutual fund whereas you know Chris.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Our wonderful cio is is running our models here so yeah portfolio managers obviously are investment heavy. They're not doing planning either.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Okay. Planning is more, in my mind, more about getting to know what it is the client wants to do with that money, right? Or how much they would like to have in the future. What are their plans for the future? So getting to know Dan, his situation.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: I want to be retired by 50. I would like to spend about this much. Every year, those types of things. Okay, well, how are we going to get you there from here? That's planning. Now, part of that is you've got to have investments to do that, most likely. And so, okay, well, we're going to work together to figure out what's the best investment plan to serve that plan.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Now, it's not exactly asset management, because when I think of asset managers, I'm thinking of the people that are running the mutual fund, they're running the ETF, they're running whatever hedge fund. They're the ones that are in the weeds studying, is it better to buy this stock or that stock or this bond or that bond? Because that takes an incredible amount of time and resources.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: And most advisors are going to be picking amongst those funds to come up with an asset allocation that makes sense for the client.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Right.

DANO WEIR: So the financial plan is basically the roadmap. For the person. A financial plan is I want to retire at 65. That's in 17 years. Therefore, I need to, you know, I need to think about this from a tax strategy standpoint. I need to think of, I want to move to Idaho and buy this house. Okay. I'm going to need this amount of money. I'll use it.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: I like to use analogies. So if you use like a fitness analogy, right? If you go to somebody and say, I want to run ultra marathons. Okay. The plan for that is completely different than I want to compete in bodybuilding competitions. Okay. So you're going to need a different plan for each one of those routes.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Well, you're also going to need to eat food. So you're going to have a, probably a wildly different, you know, nutrition plan based on which one of those routes you're going to. All right. Okay. So I'm going to say, well, you're going to need, you know, this much meat, potatoes, and.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Vegetables and then but somebody else is making that meat somebody else is making those vegetables right we're we're not actually doing that right but we might say we like these brands these they they you know create the type of food we're looking for you're you're guiding you're the guy yes i mean i.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Think it's also easy to think of it as like not every client is the same so like we have a lot of younger clients they're they're gonna have different investments they're going to have different asset allocation than someone that's 80 years old. So you would never know any of that if you were just doing investments.

DANO WEIR: Now, I'm preaching to the choir here, but how could you ever know how to put someone's money somewhere in an investment if you didn't know what the plan was?

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Well, that goes back to the components. And that goes back to the obligation as...

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Ado Sherry.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Or not. You know, maybe, maybe you don't care about any of that. Maybe you just say, Hey, I want, I want cake. I want this kind of cake and I need somebody to buy it for me. Right. And, and that's, and that's fine. There's a market for that. There's people that need that and want that. And so that's why it exists.

DANO WEIR: All right. Let's move on to the third type here, insurance. So Chris, you mentioned you did have some experience in that, earlier in your career. How are insurance agents? Who are also financial advisors, how are they paid?

DANO WEIR: Some of them try to say, I've heard.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Well, there's a lot of different types of insurance, obviously. There's everything from home insurance to insurance that are like quasi-investments.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: So, you know, and the insurance industry, I feel, in general, is like kind of behind most of the other, the rest of the industry in terms of how it works and how people get paid. That is changing. They're allowing different types of pay structures, but the vast majority of it was commission-based.

DANO WEIR: So similar to a broker-dealer. I get sort of- When I sell you a policy.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Yes. And then within there, there's independent agents where they can buy from all different kinds of companies, but company A pays this commission, company B pays a different commission. They're going to have different policies, different prices.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Then you have captive agents, which they can only sell you from- one company right right so you can have anything you want as long as it's from them right so so there's different ways and to your point earlier there's a lot of different people that say we're planners or financial because some insurance products do have investments rolled into well there's a there a lot of them are built as tools for certain parts of.

DANO WEIR: Rachel's ready to go.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: She's like, help me out, Rachel.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: So the captive piece, I think is important because if it's, it's how it sounds. If you're held captive to said insurance firm, you're only allowed to sell policies, which that's a huge conflict of interest. Like what about diversification? You know, it doesn't exist.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Whereas if you're not held captive, if you use like an FMO, which is field marketing organization, maybe. They'll give you a variety of quotes from different providers, a little bit more agnostic. So I think that's, in my humble opinion, a little bit less of a conflict of interest than having one trick pony, essentially.

DANO WEIR: But it can be hard to know. And that's the goal of today's episode, is that it can be hard to know. And especially if you're the dad in the family or the mom in the family, you're the one who's in trouble.

DANO WEIR: In charge of the money, if you do that, or maybe you're both working on it together and you're trying to do what's best for your family and you go and sit down with somebody and they seem nice and you have no clue what any of this is and you've weighted yourself into a whole life policy.

DANO WEIR: And maybe that wasn't the best thing for you.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: It could be. It could be. Right. I don't think there's ever a time where you can say it never works as the best tool. Like there's always a situation. Right. But. But there's this nuance between fee-only advisors and fee-based advisors.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Now, we're a fee-based because some of us in the firm have an insurance license, and some insurance can only be sold or paid for in a certain way, right? So it doesn't, because of that, you have to say that you're fee-based versus if you don't have an insurance license, you can say that you're fee-only, right?

RACHEL SCHUYLER: On a positive note regarding insurance, aren't there now fee-only, like DPL, is that DPL, like fee-only fee structures?

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: There's a lot of companies out there now that are offering the fee so that it's basically the same whether the person buys an insurance product or an investment product. So the advisor gets paid the same, which is great. And I think that's a huge point we were talking about earlier is there's never been a better time to be an investor.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: The types of investments that you can get for the price that you can get them at today, the quality of advice that you can get if you look for it is so much better than it was 10, 15, 20, even 30 years ago. To your point about the regulation being changed, I mean...

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: It was so much more expensive for such so much more of a limited spectrum of options than what we have today. So it is evolving. It's always getting better. It feels like in terms of the, the options that are out there.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Yeah, and the technology too.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: And the technology, yeah.

DANO WEIR: Chris, can you give me, because today's episode, the title is the F word, fiduciary.

DANO WEIR: Can you give me some of the key components of fiduciary? We've touched on it generally, but it's in the best interest of the client. What does that mean? And is that just something you say or is that something you've studied and passed tests for?

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: I'm sure there's lots of different definitions for it. I like the one from the CFP board, the Certified Financial Planning Professionals board.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: They have the duty of loyalty, care, and the duty to follow client's instructions. So that's how they define it.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: I think those pretty much speak for themselves. But loyalty, obviously, if you hire me as your agent, I need to be loyal to you and do what's in your best interest as if. I was making the decision for myself.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: And I think the best concept I can think of, just to make it super simple, is if you were managing money for a child, say you're managing money for a three-year-old, my four-year-old, he doesn't know anything about money. But let's say he had $10 million that somebody needed to manage. So you would be managing it on his behalf. In his best interests. So what would you do knowing what you know to help this person?

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: So, the duty of care is doing that in a way that, you know, you're thoughtful about your professional, you recognize when you are in a zone where you maybe don't know the answers and you need to bring in somebody else that does when you've reached the edge of your competency levels. Right.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: So, so being thoughtful and how you provide that, that, and, And then lastly, following the client's instructions. At the end of the day, as long as that client is mentally competent, you can give them all the options and they say, yeah, thanks, but no thanks. I still want you to do this. You have to do it. You have to act on their instructions.

DANO WEIR: But they're paying you an upfront fee. And that's what, I mean, so there's no, if they buy something silly, well, maybe something that's risky or that is.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: What's that? Bitcoin, right? Yeah.

DANO WEIR: Don't tell Darren.

DANO WEIR: If you buy something that you wouldn't necessarily advise, that's up to them. And they've still paid you the fee, right? They paid you the fee that you gave them the advice. And then they said, thank you for the advice.

DANO WEIR: I still think this is a good idea, but maybe that adjusted their opinion or whatever. Correct. Versus, you know, selling them. I really think you should buy this stock that when you buy it, I'm also going to get paid.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Wink, wink.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: Yes. Well, yeah. I mean, as a parent, I. I think you can you know understand how i'm putting this but like sometimes you know things that you're trying to to you know relate to your kids but sometimes they're only going to learn it the hard way right put your helmet on before you get on your bike right and they're thinking what a drag dad i don't like that you know and then, so maybe they don't follow your instructions.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: They, they fall, they hit their head, you know?

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: So there's a lot of situations like that where, you know, you try to give the best advice, but ultimately it's up to them if they're going to put the helmet on or not.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: Yeah. Learn by doing.

CHRIS SIPES CFP®: And for us, and for us, unfortunately, if they say, you know what? I reject the helmet. Send me down the hill with no helmet. Ultimately we had to say, Hey, here you go.

DANO WEIR: Well, Rachel, you've been with us for a while now working for a fiduciary. How has that been different in your career?

RACHEL SCHUYLER: It's a night and day, honestly, compared to going back to your list. I mean, the asset management world is very transactional. It's it was almost a little gross. And again, no, I'm not not shaming that part of the business. My husband's in that part of the business, in fact. But with. The RIA structure and the fiduciary obligation, it's not like we're faking it. We're genuinely, we care about our clients.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: We do what's in their best interest. We help them reach their goals. I would say it's a lot more fulfilling overall. You leave work and you feel like you did good by people. It's very different than, hey, I sold the most short-duration income. Today like i get to go on the golf scramble next week it's just it's it's drastically different so Let's just say I'm enjoying it.

DANO WEIR: I think golf courses were invented when brokers came around.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: A hundred percent.

DANO WEIR: Sorry, guys.

DANO WEIR: Thank you both so much for joining us today. And thank you for checking out the show. I hope you learned something. And if you didn't, watch it again.

RACHEL SCHUYLER: And hit that subscribe button.

DANO WEIR: We'll see you next time.

DANO WEIR: This content was produced by Fermata Advisors. LLC, an SEC registered investment advisor, DBA, Sonoma Wealth Advisors. The opinions expressed by Fermata Advisors LLC on this show are their own. All statements and opinions expressed are based upon information considered reliable, although it should not be relied upon as such. Any statements or opinions are subject to change without notice.

DANO WEIR: Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. Investments involve risk and unless otherwise stated are not guaranteed.

DANO WEIR: Information expressed does not take into account your specific situation or objectives and is not intended as recommendations appropriate for any individual. Viewers and listeners are encouraged to seek advice from a qualified tax, legal, or investment advisor. To determine whether any information presented may be suitable for their specific situation. Past performance is non-indicative of future performance.